The Impact of Fears and Desires on our Friendships: Intro to the Enneagram with Christina S. Wilcox

Episode #114: Do you know your Enneagram (personality) type and how your core fears and desires impact your friendships? I understood very little about anything Enneagram related before my interview with Christina S. Wilcox, author of Take Care of Your Friends: An Enneagram Guide to Interpersonal Relationships. I still have a lot to learn!

Consider this episode an introduction to the Enneagram and a reminder that each of us is wired differently through nature, nurture, and life's experiences. Understanding ourselves on a deep level helps us be better friends because it gives us more patience and grace for others. The Enneagram is one tool towards that goal.

There are many resources online about Enneagram tests and more. I took a free quiz here. Please note: I have no idea how this site compares to others!


Meet Christina S. Wilcox:

Christina is a 26-year-old author, mental health advocate, enneagram expert, and creative in Denver, Colorado. You may recognize her from her first book Take Care of Your Type: An Enneagram Guide to Self-Care, or from one of her Instagram graphics created for over 90K followers. Find Christina on her website, her podcast, her Youtube channel, and of course on Instagram.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram , TikTok, Twitter, Youtube, Threads
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Transcript

[00:00:00] Christina: I love the Enneagram and believe it's impactful specifically for friendships because self discovery is so vital to being a good friend. It's exciting to think about friendship through this lens of understanding myself and also understanding others and their core desires and fears and childhood wounds in a deep way to not enable people, but to give them grace in the space to grow. I think that's super important.

[00:00:31] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship. Do you know your Enneagram type? Do you think you know my Enneagram type if you've been listening to this show for a long time? I just learned about Enneagrams I don't mean I just heard of them. I've heard of this, you know, personality type or this way of exploring your personality.

But I didn't know a lot about it and so I was really excited to be able to talk to Christina S. Wilcox, who has written two books now about Enneagram, Take Care of Your Type, an Enneagram Guide to Self Care, and her brand new book, take care of your friends, which encourages you to understand your Enneagram type and to understand how you interact with other people based on your personality type and other personality types and really about making room for everyone in the world, right?

We are all different. And that is a message that goes through so many of my episodes, which is we are all different. We don't all approach situations the same. And so where some person might be the type to reach out all the time, another person isn't not necessarily cause they don't like you, but it's a piece of their personality for many reasons.

Either they don't feel the need to reach out. They feel shy about reaching out. I mean, there's lots of different reasons. You might not, that's just one friendship example. We actually don't get into that nitty gritty of. Different friendship behaviors. This episode is more about understanding that there are nine different personality types and what those nine are in the Enneagram system and You'll need to read Christina's book to really get down to the level of how knowing your type and knowing a friend's type perhaps Teaches you about how people interact.

 In February of 2019, Christina began creating and posting on, Enneagram. Like it was a new interest of hers at the time. She's really become quite an expert. Within eight weeks, she had 800 followers. Within a year, 90,000 followers she has on Instagram. And she's also really a visual artist too. I mean, she does this beautiful, design on her Instagram that you'll see of the different Enneagram types and kind of help their illustrations really, to help you understand what these different types are.

I'm going to let Christina teach me and teach you if you don't know about Enneagram. She comes to us from Denver, Colorado, where she lives with her husband and their puppy Moose, who may bark a few times in this episode Christina, welcome to Dear Nina. I'm so glad to have you here.

[00:03:01] Christina: thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to just chat.

[00:03:05] Nina: It not that often that I have a guest where I truly know almost nothing about the topic. Like usually, cause usually, obviously, I mean, this is about friendship as well, especially with your book title, amazing take care of your friends with that most fabulous cover in the whole world, which will be on the graphic. So everyone will have seen it. I know about Enneagram, meaning I've heard of it. I have friends who are into it, but no one has really explained it to me. So Christina, can you first explain what is Enneagram. It's such a weird word, too.

[00:03:34] Christina: I know it is. And also you are a half the expert because friendship is such a huge part of this book, so I'm excited to hear your feedback as we learn about the types and, how they interact within friendships just as someone who has become a friendship nerd through the journey of writing the book.

Enneagram is considered by large, one of the oldest personality tests to exist. The roots of it are, people will say it's very argued and murky and a lot of different groups, whether religious or new age or whatever, have tried to claim it as Oh, we discovered this, but truly it was developed as a tool for psychological purposes. the main roots of it that I believe are most accurate and that I refer to the most is monastic roots. The Enneagram was developed in As a very sacred intimate process to go through with a mentor monk in a monastery to where other people wouldn't even know you're Enneagram type.

It was a very private thing. It was based around the seven deadly sins originally, even though there are nine types. that was where the concept really started formulating. And each Enneagram type out of the nine have a core fear, core desire, and core childhood wound. this monk and mentor monk would go through their Enneagram type to honestly heal from childhood wounds and to better understand themselves so that they could commit more authentically to their monastic practice. Throughout the years, it has become a tool that I believe even popular psychologists such as Carl Jung and Others in that group have referenced and adopted. And then obviously pop psychology kind of got ahold of it as well.

And what makes the Enneagram unique as opposed to other personality tests like the Myers Briggs or StrengthsFinders or whatever it is is that it gives you a lot of paths for growth it's not just, this is who I am, this is what I fear, this is what I desire, now what? It very much is like, this is what I fear, this is what I desire, this might be why. For a lot of people I've encountered, the Enneagram is honestly An introductory tool that leads them into therapy most times because It's supposed to feel a little internally violating.

When you find out your type, it's not supposed to be like, Oh, Teehee, love it. there are supposed to be some stabs of Oh yeah, that hurts a little bit. What do you mean people know that about me? What do you mean that this is written somewhere? But that's a little bit of a high level overview. I love the Enneagram and believe it's impactful specifically for friendships because self discovery is so vital to being a good friend.

It's exciting to think about friendship through this lens of understanding myself and also understanding others and their core desires and fears and childhood wounds in a deep way to not enable people, but to give them grace in the space to grow. I think that's super important. that's a little overview. 

[00:06:55] Nina: yes, so beautifully said that, you know, if you know yourself better, you can Be a better friend, better partner, you know, all the things, and then also have patience and grace for the next person who also is, of course, dealing with a different set of personality types and wounds and everyone's carrying their own thing.

And we know that, but it's like, this is just another tool. to remind ourselves. So I think we should go over the nine types and I know that it's really complex and there's so much, but I think to be able to talk about how different types of people connect or end up disconnected in some cases, it'd be good to know the types.

And then I will tell you and the listeners what I suspect I am after taking one quiz, which I know people really recommend not doing a quiz, but I had to have some sense. And when I took it and I read what those results meant, I was like, yeah, that tracks. So let's go over the one through nine. And if I have any questions while you're going, I'll just interrupt and ask. So listeners know that there's way more to it, but this will at least give us a common language for the rest of the episode.

[00:07:55] Christina: So starting with type one type one is. Mostly known as the reformer, the perfectionist. I personally refer to them in my books as the improver, because I believe that's a little bit more of a neutral personality name as opposed to some of the, Names for type one and all the types honestly can be a little negative. And so I like improver because improving be such a healthy thing, but it also can be the focus on solely improvement can be the demise of many people. for type ones, they really desire to genuinely be good and above reproach, to have integrity to be in many ways perfect. They are very idealistic in their thinking. They're very passionate people but also very committed to being right and being accurate and just their morality is attached to that mission, which ends up with them fearing being condemned, being wrong, being Honestly, just bad, like that's such a simple thing, but just fearing being a bad person, being morally corrupted in some way, being. misguided or wrong is very fearsome for type ones. 

And they they desire their own betterment and your betterment so deeply that sometimes betterment versus berating, that can be a little, the waters can get a little murky on that. one of the biggest stark qualities of type ones that everyone agrees with is that they have a very loud inner critic.

There's just like a little voice in their head that is constantly being like, well, could have done that better. And it doesn't just apply to them. It applies to other people too.

So that's a little bit of type one. Type two is known as the helper within the Enneagram space, but I refer to them in this book as the giver, just because. There's a little bit of a trend with Enneagram twos that a lot of women, when first learning about the Enneagram, just assign themselves type two because it has the qualities that The patriarchy wants women to be so it's like a lot of women just subscribe themselves to type two because that's what they should be, even though it doesn't align with their true core desires and fears.

And I also believe that type twos can be leaders. So calling them a helper just feels to me a little bit minimizing. And so I do call them the giver in this book specifically. Their core desire is to be Irreplaceable in the lives of people they love. They want to be wanted. They want to be desired.

They want to be truly and fully loved, but more than anything irreplaceable, which is why they fear being replaced. They fear being unwanted. They fear being undesirable to people as a whole, but most importantly, the people that they are actively loving and giving for. As the name insinuates type twos givers are very self sacrificial. They very much prioritize their relationships with other people, sometimes to their own detriment. They're also feeling catchers. Sometimes type twos don't even know What their emotions are versus the emotions they're carrying for other people.

And so sometimes they just feel like they feel too much because of how much they attach themselves to the people that they love or people that they care about. That is a little summary of type twos. Type threes are called the achievers within the Enneagram space, but I call them doers in this book. Again, the stereotypical type three that you will see online is people being like they're CEOs and they're this and they're that, which you know what, honestly, the stereotypes exist for a reason, but.

Also, I think at the core of a three, they don't have to be at the top of some corporate entity to be an achiever and to be a doer. So that is why I call them a doer in this book. Because at the core of who they are, they desire to be valuable and to bring value. They desire to be impactful, and they desire to be admired, honestly. They want to be successful but not success in a materialistic way. I imagine, the act of checking off something on a to do list, just feeling that sense of accomplishment and proving of oneself and because threes often are in the mode of proving themselves in some way, whether to themselves or to others, they fear being, you know, un-admired they fear, for a lot of threes, there's this fear of being exposed as a loser, like, exposed as not being who they say they are, not being everything that they think they should be. 

Sometimes threes can struggle with masking or superficiality of just making sure that they are coming across how they need to for different types of people so that they're not exposed as their deepest fear, you know, whether or not that's even true, but they can struggle with that emotional vulnerability simply because they fear that someone's going to see them and be like, Yeah, you're not who I thought you were. So that is type three. type four within the Enneagram space is often referred to as the individualist. In my book, I do refer to them as the seeker because they are seekers of significance. Their core desire in life is to be significant. They desire meaning and depth in their life above all else. And it really matters to them to not just feel accepted as who they are, but to be understood.

As who they are to hold significance, not just in other people's lives, but in the world to themselves. They want to feel as though they matter. That often leads them to fearing being insignificant, being ordinary.

[00:14:38] Nina: similar to 3. I would have a hard time differentiating those.

[00:14:42] Christina: I would say how you can differentiate between three and four. Not that fours can't struggle with emotional masking, but often threes are going to appear as more put together than fours fours are going to be the type of people that could sit with you and talk about very deep and vulnerable things, but there's this like push and pull where they could share something very deep, but then pull away because They're ashamed of what they said, or they're getting in their head about who they are, or they don't feel accepted, or they feel misunderstood.

I would say threes don't fear being misunderstood as much as being exposed. Four's, really along with desiring to be significant, I will say too that Four's also desire to be rescued. Four's often feel like something is lacking within them that everyone else has figured out. And that is why their quest for personal significance is a core desire, it's because they feel like there's something missing in them that they haven't been able to find.

And for 4s, sometimes they will rely on relationships even to be rescued from that emotion. But 4s are also the people that will be able to go to the depths with you and show you that you're okay and you can survive the depths. They're just very similar, more similarly to twos. They feel a lot and are very affected by things where threes may have those same feelings, but they are more committed to masking that in order to be seen as the identity that they think they should be.

Twos, threes, and fours also are a part of the heart triad so all three of these types, their core desires and fears are going to be coming from a place of shame or grief. Where type one is a part of the gut triad. And so type one, eight and nine are going to be fearing and desiring things from a place of either connection or suppression of anger. Fives, six and sevens, just saying all this before we dive into all the other types, but five, six and sevens are in the mind triad their core desires and fears often come from a place of fear itself. So that is also why some of the types may feel similar.

In those groups, because their core desires and fears are coming from a similarly rooted place, but they're behaviorally coming across differently, which is how the types are different, and you're dominant in one type versus

[00:17:36] Nina: It's so nice to have someone explaining this because I think part of why I've never really learned about it is the second I start dabbling in numbers, there's something in my brain just turns off, but you're explaining it in a very understandable way because it's not as simple as the one through nine.

I'm glad you brought up some of these other things like the triads. And then I know like people are like, I'm a one with a wing three, the numbers I'm like, Oh, my brain just like stops, but I'm going to, I'm pushing myself to just, take it in because I want to understand. I know it's a big thing out there that people are talking about and it's been brought to my attention so many times like, oh, you should do an episode on Enneagrams and I was just waiting for the right person and you were the right person. Okay, so we're on number five.

[00:18:13] Christina: So type 5, they are referred to as the investigators often in the enneagram space, which is 1 of the names I'm actually more comfortable with for type 5s. In my book, I refer to them sometimes interchangeably as the investigator or the observer. I believe both names are pretty accurate to who they are at their essence. And type fives their core desire more than anything else is to feel capable, competent and useful so they are typically working against fears of being incompetent, incapable, useless, helpless, not being able to be sufficient. Type fives are stereotypically known as the most recluse enneagram type. A lot of people will, subscribe them to being book nerds just people who are very isolated where a lot of the type fives I know, yes, they are.

Even as an extroverted type 5, they need time to recover from the world. There's just a lot of sensory input for type 5s that can be difficult. type 5s still value friendships and community. But because they typically fear being useless, they have this difficulty with feeling comfortable in the world. Often when they begin to feel uncomfortable, they withdraw. As opposed to where some of the other types, they work against their fears by attaching themselves to things or relationships., Fives tend to detach themselves from the outside world and attach themselves to thoughts and ideas, knowledge to make up for their fears.

That pursuit is what helps them feel more comfortable in the world, leading to them feeling more capable and competent. So it's just like a whole cycle for type 5s. Type 6 is known in the Enneagram space as the Loyalist. I actually refer to them as the Advocate. I do believe loyalty is a golden quality of type sixes. But as a type six myself I found that when I was learning about type six, it just felt like there was a little bit more space for the other types to exist complexly where type sixes were often viewed very singularly as being loyal, being needing safety, being anxious, blah, blah, blah.

 People think that they're the most common Enneagram type in the world because sixes can show up in so many different ways, but they all are united in the core desire and fear. Six's core desire is to feel safe. They want to be stable, they want belonging, and they want certainty, and they want to understand. Where type 5s are seeking to learn and understand and gather resources so that they feel more capable and competent.

6s are trying to understand to garner a sense of certainty in their life to find answers to be sure of things. And 6s fear being unsafe, being in instability. That is why a lot of sixes are devil's advocates. They can be very doubtful, but they can also be very optimistic. They kind of pendulum swing because sometimes their fear will drive them to distrust others immensely or distrust themselves immensely. So they kind of swing back and forth between those two things. Sevens are the last number in the mind triad. They are known as the enthusiast among Enneagram experts. I refer to them as the explorers because similarly to, a lot of the stereotypes I've been discussing, sevens are known as the energizer bunny of the Enneagram. They walk into the room and the party has begun.

They're the fun friend. They're positive and visionaries. Though that is, again, the stereotypes exist for a reason. Sevens are also the most curious people that I've ever encountered. They want to experience and to be enthused by things because they're curious. Explorer just felt more natural to me and more all encompassing for Type 7s.

Their core desire, above everything else, is to feel satisfied and also to be taken care of which is a less discussed core desire for 7s. Typically you hear, they want satisfaction and freedom, which is true, they want to be taken care of so that they can have the most satisfaction and freedom That is often what they seek in relationships.

The most is that Whether they're conscious of it or not they're seeking to be taken care of so that they can feel free. Their biggest fear within that is to in a very simplistic way to miss out. Sevens definitely experience FOMO. I would say more than any of the types. the idea of missing out on what their life could be on who they could be on anything is actually devastating.

It's not a goofy little, Oh my gosh, I don't want to miss this dinner party. It's , What if I'm missing out on the thing that will take care of me that will make me feel free? Sevens, though, they seem like they don't want any ties to anyone, They also fear being alone. Five sixes and sevens again are all based in fear. All of their core desires are their behavioral mechanisms too. avoid their feeling of fear. Lastly, we have the next 2 numbers type 8, which is known as the challenger. As you can tell, I have renamed almost every type. Just because I feel like while remaining true to the tradition of the Enneagram, some revision to the names I think is really helpful in more modern contexts. the type 8 in my book is called the defender because yes, they are actively confrontational and challenging, it is because they are defending and protecting themselves and those they love.

So the Type 8 core desire is genuinely to protect themselves, to defend what they believe in. They really desire to be a pillar of strength. That leads them to fearing being betrayed, being at the mercy of someone else's control being vulnerable, honestly, whether physically, mentally, emotionally. 

Eights are typically the type that can most easily identify themselves because type eights tend to feel anger before any emotion. So whether they're feeling sad or hurt or confused the emotion that they're going to experience first is frustration and anger. They also typically have no problem taking charge in a room.

They are most often put in leadership roles, whether or not they ask to be put in leadership roles. They're also tenderhearted at their core, but because they fear that vulnerability and weakness. And again, it's not like a type three fear of that where it's a fear of being exposed. Type eight truly fear betrayal from others. Lastly, we have type nine who is known as the peacemaker or mediator. I do keep that name for them in this book because it is truly I think one of the best ways to describe them. Type nines probably will have the hardest time identifying themselves because they will see themselves in every single number and this is because they desire to be connected and in tune and balanced more than anything else, which sometimes leads them to merge with the personalities of others to have a hard time expressing what they want or what they believe because they fear disconnection so much.

They fear chaos, they fear conflict, they fear irreparable separation from those that they love and care about. So nines may have a hard time identifying who they are because they feel like who they are is often defined by the people they're around when in reality they are typically unique in ways that they are unaware of.

 I would say that they're also the most stubborn of all the Enneagram types. Even though they might have a hard time sharing their opinion, they are going to dig their heels in and communicate their desires through passiveness and stubbornness, as opposed to bluntness or I don't want to say honesty because I don't believe peacemakers are dishonest.

It's more just, they just fear being in emotional disarray or relational conflict so much that they will choose a passive route to communicate versus upfront and straightforward.

[00:27:43] Nina: Is your feeling that people's, or not just like your personal feeling, but what you've studied and learned, does the Enneagram type, come from a combination, like you said earlier, childhood wound, is it a combination of your upbringing and then some, I assume, some inherent, things that We come into the world with? How does it all come together, you think?

[00:28:01] Christina: this is definitely a honestly debated concept within the community, many people believe that you're born your Enneagram type where other people, like you said, believe it's a combination of nature and nurture. I typically lean towards the combination of nature and nurture because there is an undeniable fact that we are shaped by our reality, by generational trauma, by our environments, by definitions and labels that are placed on us. Within the enneagram system, each number actually has a number they take on qualities of in stress or growth. Many experts believe your type's stress number and their core desires Is reflective of the beginning of your childhood self, which is very interesting.

That is also something I love about the Enneagram is the more you dig into it, the more there's space for those complexities. But to get back to your question, I personally believe Nature and nurture is a huge part of it. This is also kind of a hot take within the Enneagram space as well, but I believe trauma affects your brain chemistry and many people believe your Enneagram type is like solidified in childhood and it will never change, but I did study for a bit to become a clinician, like a therapist, and just learning so much about the brain and how trauma can truly rewire your brain.

I am curious to the reality of people who have experienced severe trauma, that it could change their personality. 

[00:29:40] Nina: Things like birth order, right? I think that has, I mean, I know it does affects your personality and I wonder if firstborns tend to be more a number one. That would just be like my assumption that, you know, there's things like that. So can I tell you what my tests looked like? I don't know if all tests come out this way, but it came out kind of like a pie chart. Is that what other people's come out like? 

[00:30:00] Christina: It can definitely do that.

[00:30:01] Nina: I don't even remember which one I took. I'll have to like dig that back out for the show notes. I just, Googled free enneagram tests and I know they're not all created equally, but It has all the numbers on it. I'm looking at it right now.

Some of them come out pretty even, some are really small. And then there's two that are much bigger. The biggest one is the three. And I'm not surprised by that at all. as you're describing three, I'm like, yup, that's me. I also, I heard once and I wonder if you think this is true, that it's hard to take a test to actually.

I mean, maybe you could take a bunch of tests, and if you keep getting the same number, then there's probably some accuracy there. But that you kind of know your number when you hear it described, or you read about it, and you kind of feel like the hairs on your arm stand up, kind of. So I felt that way with the number three.

But the number one is just a bit below that in my little pie chart. So, there's Maybe some combo there, but I three really spoke to me more. I actually don't think I'm a perfectionist, but I do think that I definitely have the doer achiever or want to be admired. you know, people want me to talk about politics on this show. I really won't. I think that speaks to that, that like, I'm not really interested in disappointing. 

But my six, seven, eight are not that far below that. And they're kind of equal by my smallest is two and four, which does not surprise me. I am really not a caretaker. I have four kids by the way. I am a literal caretaker. I mean, I am in a very involved mom and I am like all up in their business all the time, but out in the world, I don't think I'm it's not always a good thing. I don't necessarily think of that's like a positive thing about myself whatever questions led two and four to be so small, like four is the smallest, like so small.

It's three is huge. And then four is like this teeny little triangle. I'm like, wow, I really am out there not, being the helper giver type. What was number four? yeah, I don't know. for whatever that's worth. And you're a six. So we have a little combo here. 

[00:31:52] Christina: What's interesting is every one is a little bit of all the nine types. And so what's cool about the pie chart is you see how that can come into play. You just are dominant in one number. So it is interesting even seeing that little pie chart of, people you may even be more prone to relating to or more prone to clashing with.

I imagine that maybe you would be drawn to, twos and fours because they're different from you, but then after a bit be like, Oh, no, this is a little much for me. It's funny because I mistyped as a three for a really long time, because sixes they portray type 3 qualities when they're in a state of stress and I originally Had taken the Enneagram test during a very stressful season of my life and Once I was out of that season, but also started therapy and all these different things I realized that I was six. So it's it's very interesting 

[00:32:53] Nina: Do you do all that artwork for your Instagram, 

[00:32:57] Christina: I do. 

[00:32:57] Nina: It's gorgeous. 

[00:32:58] Christina: Thank you. I do a lot of it as well as my dad is a artist. And so sometimes when I can't figure out something, He will literally hand draw it and then fax it to me to put into Adobe Illustrator and then it makes its way onto the graphic. That was definitely a little bit earlier on in my illustration journey. 

[00:33:20] Nina: It's really bright and fresh. I think it does help illustrate the concepts you're trying to help people understand. I want us to dive into, for the final part here, how this all applies to friendship. if you're talking to people or helping people are in your book, especially, what advice are you giving to people in terms of understanding themselves and getting along with other people?

[00:33:40] Christina: The concept of this book actually was inspired by a series of articles that was done in the Atlantic in 2021 called the Friendship Files. 

Each chapter is broken down into what each type looks like as a friend when they're healthy, when they're coasting in life, like they're not bad but they're not at their best and then also what they could look like as a friend when they are in a state of stress and then that breaks down to tips on how to be a better friend as that Enneagram type and how others can be a better friend to you based on your type.

A lot of the advice I'm giving is very high level. There's a lot you could go in depth with, but there's only so many pages i was allowed to write. With my first book about the Enneagram being primarily about self care and how there's a difference between self care and self pampering. Pampering of the self is incredibly important, but caring for the self often requires more grit and more grit and more facing hard things that may not be comfortable. 

That takes a very similar theme with the advice I give in this book for each type, because as I was reading through the friendship files and then ended up doing more research about the Enneagram and relationships and just friendship in general, there is a huge aspect of self care that comes from being in community and prioritizing your friendships. though it is so important to prioritize yourself as a person and self discovery is like, we've been saying such a vital part of being a good friend and understanding who you are and what kind of friend that you are.

If you are only ever thinking about yourself or doing hard things only for yourself, it can get very lonely. And sometimes the things that you need to face are not just for your benefit, but for the benefit of your relationships and for your friendships. And I believe that that's something that.

Isn't talked about often. It's just an aspect of friendships in general, but also how the Enneagram system can be used to actually be impactful in a person's life to improve and grow and feel validated in their struggles or relational hardships.

[00:36:06] Nina: yeah, I think it's nice to know that you're not the only person who reacts to a situation a certain way, or like, that's just that there's a lot of other people out there like you and some people do a better job than others in accepting parts of themselves and challenging parts of themselves.

Something you said spoke to me, it makes me think of, and I've spoken about it in other episodes. And I'm sure you see this too, just how much the word boundaries gets thrown around. I think it's a good example of taking self care a little too far. Like I need to take care of my boundaries. I need to have this boundary in my life.

And at a certain point, it's like, well, you're just one person and a whole world with other people and your own boundaries are not the only thing that matters. There is boundaries and taking care of yourself. And then there's being in community and having to be there for another person.

And sometimes your own desires or limitations or fears can't be the only thing that matters in a relationship because you're dealing with another person who has their own desires and fears and issues. I think you can get overly focused on how do I handle a situation? It's like, well, you're not alone in this situation, so you can’t just, go. All right, Christina. I mean, there's so much stuff we could cover here because it's such a big topic. I really urge people to read your book and the book is Take Care of Your Friends by Christina Wilcox. It's a beautifully illustrated book to that cover. Did you do the cover?

[00:37:24] Christina: I did. I did help them design the cover. 

[00:37:26] Nina: I love it. You're so lucky to have those two skill sets of the visual and like the deep analytical. Is there any last thing that you want to leave us with a teaser taste, even though with this was kind of high level and we weren't able to go to Into every single detail but what can you leave us with at the end here?

[00:37:43] Christina: Something I will say about the new book and about the topic in general is that if you do want to experience the Enneagram a little bit more from a first analyzing self and then relationships my first book take care of your type is more focused on the Discovering your type aspect, whereas this book is, you can discover your type as you go through it, but it is a lot more focused on friendships and your type relationally, so there's an assumption that you may be going into that book with An idea of what type you might be.

If you're completely new to the Enneagram, you can either take a free quiz online, read through the Enneagram Institute has really great type descriptions that are very thorough and that's free. 

I'm just so appreciative that you had me on today to discuss all of this. What makes talking about the Enneagram fun this many years in is introducing people to it and seeing people connect the dots for the first time about themselves or about their relationships. I'm super grateful to be on your show.

[00:38:52] Nina: Thank you for being my tutor helping me understand it better I know it'll be new for a lot of my listeners, too. So I wishing you a lot of success with the book I can't wait to help you get it out there in the world. Not that you need my help with your massive Massive Instagram following it's quite something. Listeners come back next week when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. Bye.